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25-Nov-87 07:38:45-PST,28904;000000000001 Date: Wed 25 Nov 87 09:10:44-EDT From: Jeff Shulman <SHULMAN@SDR> Subject: Delphi Mac Digest V3 #51 Delphi Mac Digest Wednesday, November 25, 1987 Volume 3 : Issue 51 Today's Topics: RE: multifinder problem Mac System Software Versions ? (3 messages) RE: System Software 5.0 LaserShare vs. PrintMaster RE: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #93 Dir-Acta-ry 0.41 Finder 6.0 bug re: Help for sight impaired re: MultiFinder Impressions Multifinder funnies (2 messages) more multifinder glitchies Hypercard SFputFile RE: INFO-MAC Digest V5 #137 Where to put icons under MF (4 messages) outliner scrolling MacApp 2.0 Smalltalk (2 messages) MF Menu Warning ROM and Monaco 9 (2 messages) RE: SE/20 and HD SC Setup (Usenet Mac D WARNING! typing in RSG! 4.0 (2 messages) Mac II power switch RSG 4.0 Tabs (argh) Hard disk building re: OLD ROM's no longer supported RE: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #95 HyperDrive FX/40 vs. Radius Accelerator Hypercard launch problems (2 messages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DSACHS Subject: RE: multifinder problem (Re: Msg 23543) Date: 13-NOV 23:11 Bugs & Features "Stop Printing" does not cause Print Monitor to drop out, but putting files on indefinite hold does. I discovered that the print time is held in the CREATION date/time for spooled files. ------------------------------ From: STEVEMALLER Subject: Mac System Software Versions Date: 14-NOV 02:13 Business Mac Macintosh System Software Versions List --------------------------------------- Macintosh: XL 512 512e Plus SE II --------- --- --- --- --- --- --- System 3.2 3.2* 3.2* 4.2 4.2 4.2 Finder 5.3 5.3* 5.3* 6.0 6.0 6.0 MultiFinder n/a n/a n/a 1.0 1.0 1.0 PrintMonitor n/a n/a n/a 1.0 1.0 1.0 ImageWriter 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 A/T ImageWriter 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 2.6 LaserWriter 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 LaserPrep 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 Hard Disk 20 1.1 1.1 n/a n/a n/a n/a Font/DA Mover 3.6 3.6 3.6 3.6 3.6 3.6 The Namer 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 Find File 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 Disk First Aid 1.3 1.3 1.3 1.3 1.3 1.3 HD Backup 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 Teach Text n/a n/a 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 HD SC Setup n/a n/a n/a 1.5 1.5 1.5 General n/a n/a 3.2 3.2 3.2 3.2 Keyboard n/a n/a 3.2 3.2 3.2 3.2 Key Layout n/a n/a 2.2 2.2 2.2 2.2 Mouse n/a n/a 3.2 3.2 3.2 3.2 Easy Access n/a n/a 1.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 Startup Device n/a n/a n/a n/a 3.2 3.2 Sound n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 3.2 Monitors n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 3.2 DA Handler n/a n/a n/a 1.0 1.0 1.0 Color n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 3.2 AppleShare n/a 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 Backgrounder n/a n/a n/a 1.0 1.0 1.0 HyperCard n/a n/a n/a 1.0.1 1.0.1 1.0.1 * if Appleshare is required on these machines, use System 3.3 and Finder 5.5. Most of the newest system software has a CREATION date of Thu, Oct 8, 1987. ------------------------------ From: MATTCO Subject: ? Date: 14-NOV 02:27 Macintosh Developers Hi, this is my first message, but here goes... Does anyone know how to generate a version 2 PICT on a NON-Color QuickDraw machine (ie, Mac+ & SE). I need to save multiple bits/pixel, but the nearest I can see, I have to OpenPicture() in a color graph port and of course need the Color QD CopyBits() for pixmaps. Do I really have to write the picture op-codes directly? (I know they're well documented, but still...) Thanks for any thoughts. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: ? (Re: Msg 2174) Date: 14-NOV 04:42 Macintosh Developers Off the top of my head, you'll get version 1 PICTs in old grafports, and PICT 2 in color grafports. You don't normally need to mess with opcodes. Of course, the Plus and SE don't support color grafports. So you might need the op codes (from the tech note). ------------------------------ From: DWB Subject: RE: ? (Re: Msg 2174) Date: 19-NOV 03:06 Macintosh Developers Actually, the opcodes should *not* be considered well known. Yes they've been published, but, with the *ENORMOUS* qualifier that says this for debugging purposes only. The reason being that they may very well be changed at some time in the future... David ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: System Software 5.0 (Re: Msg 23577) Date: 14-NOV 19:18 Network Digests >From: shulman@slb-sdr.UUCP (Jeff Shulman) >Subject: System Software 5.0 >before? Not only that, but *nothing* in the set is version 5.0! Might >as well have called it System Software 42.0. The LaserWriter and Laser Prep files are version 5.0. :-) peter "In any context, half of all references PEABO @ DELPHI are local and half are global." [ True - Jeff ] ------------------------------ From: HAMMEN Subject: LaserShare vs. PrintMaster Date: 15-NOV 02:43 Business Mac Hello, OK, another request. I'm trying to help my former employers, a Linotronic service bureau, set up a printer spooler system that works for them. I have not used wither LaserShare or PrintMaster, but welcome input from those who have. Can LaserShare spool to two different printers (i.e. have one Mac print to the LaserWriter & another to the Linotronic - theserver/spooler Mac could probably only print one document at a time, but hopefully could switch to the correct printer for the next job). Secondly, how compatible are they (with PageMaker, XPress, Word, Cricket Draw, etc.). I know that using PrintMaster will require more than 1 MB of RAM - is 2.5 going to be enough for large print jobs (I believe the spooler spools to disk, but I'm interested in its memory usage). Any input anyone can provide is appreciated. Robert ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #93 (Re: Msg 23577) Date: 17-NOV 01:15 Network Digests You posted Charles Maurer's old address. The new one is: Charles E Maurer 5 Grandview Ct Dundas, Ontario L9H 5C8 CANADA Personally, I prefer Bill Layman's Ann Arbor font, which should be available from Dubl-Clik. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: Dir-Acta-ry 0.41 Date: 17-NOV 02:21 Public Domain Somehow my copy of Dir-Acta-ry 0.4 got corrupted so that it wouldn't run on any machine other than a II. Since I only use a II, this got uploaded. My apologies. If you have ResEdit, you can change the procID of MENU 3 from 1 to 0. Otherwise, please download Dir-Acta-ry 0.41. (If anyone can figure out how this could have happened, I'd love to know!) (Note: despite the topic of this message, Dir-Acta-ry is not a public domain program. It is, however, free...and when combined with the free Acta Reader program, makes a great poor man's catalogger. It's even more useful if you buy my Acta desk accessory, of course.) ------------------------------ From: DSACHS Subject: Finder 6.0 bug Date: 17-NOV 20:59 Business Mac Finder 6.0 will hang if you try to move a file whose icon has a totally null mask. This happens with documents created by the public domain program "Mandelbrot Microscope". After fixing the ICN# resource and remaking the desktop file, the crashes ceased. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: re: Help for sight impaired (Re: Msg 23636) Date: 17-NOV 21:04 Network Digests >From: Leslie Kaelbling <Kaelbling@AI.SRI.COM> >Subject: Help for sight impaired I'm not sure if it still works, but you used to be able to edit the FOND 0 resource (with ResEdit) so it pointed to a larger font's resource ID. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: re: MultiFinder Impressions (Re: Msg 23636) Date: 17-NOV 21:05 Network Digests >From: PUGH@NMFECC.ARPA >Subject: MultiFinder Impressions I use it under MultiFinder and it works fine. Sometimes you can get a corrupted clipboard, in which case ScrapSaver will cause a crash under System 4.1. ------------------------------ From: CHUQ Subject: Multifinder funnies Date: 17-NOV 22:37 Business Mac I've noticed a few funnies with the new System/Finder/MF stuff. Anyone else see these? first, when you copy things, the finder very happily updates both the %done control and the filename, but doesn't decrement the "to be copied" number. It changes that in batches, going from 13 to 6 to 3 etc... As long as they're doing everything else, shouldn't they have made that number decrement with each file? Second, is the finder "print" menu item broken with macwrite? I selected two macwrite documents, and chose "print" from the finder menu. It printed the first, and macwrite died ID=02 on the second. The second file printed find manually. Finally, the 'rogue' game hangs the system under multifinder. It was sort of broken under finder 5.0, but now its gone. sigh, my favorite time waster. chuq ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Multifinder funnies (Re: Msg 23661) Date: 18-NOV 02:19 Business Mac I did a massive LaserWriter print of all the recent batch of tech notes by selecting them in the Finder and pulling down the print menu. No problems. I had print spooling enabled, and it worked fine too. peter ------------------------------ From: CHUQ Subject: more multifinder glitchies Date: 18-NOV 01:19 Business Mac Two more MF glitchies! word 3.01 is leaving temp files around again.... I haven't seen this since I upgraded from 3.0. um, oops. (They're in the system folder...) Superpaint 1.0p (with the laserwriter 4.0 patch) hangs the system if you try to select "full screen" from menu. Come to think of it, the two programs I use that try to take over the menubar (rogue and SP) BOTH hang up if you try to do that operation under MF. Could this be the problem? More fun, from down your street and under your lawn! film at 11. chuq ------------------------------ From: JIMWEINRICH Subject: Hypercard SFputFile Date: 18-NOV 08:48 Programming Yes, folks, I know there's an XCMD resource that makes it easy to put up the standard SFGETFILE dialog box to open a Mac file for reading. But what about SFPUTFILE, the standard dialog to open a file for writing? Does it exist and I've missed it? If so, please tell me where I can download it. If it doesn't exist, puhleeze, somebody, hack it and post it! I need your help and putFile!! Thanks. --Jim Weinrich 74726,3610 ------------------------------ From: LOGICHACK Subject: RE: INFO-MAC Digest V5 #137 (Re: Msg 23636) Date: 19-NOV 02:08 Network Digests >From: PUGH@NMFECC.ARPA >Subject: MultiFinder Impressions One reason ScrapSaver might be crashing is that you're using an old version. The lastest, 1.5 of 7/22/87, works fine with MultiFinder. The MultiFinder bug was known and corrected last Summer. Unfortunately, the only way to get the version number is to snoop around the end of the file with a sector editor. Oh well. Paul :) ------------------------------ From: CHUQ Subject: Where to put icons under MF Date: 19-NOV 02:37 Business Mac What are folks preferences to placing programs and folders under MF? Under the old system, I put my favorite programs and common folders on the desktop, and secondary stuff on the window for the disk itself. Under MF, I find this gets a little cluttered. Is it beter to put everything on the disk and leave that window open all the time, or to put everything on the desktop and simply close the window? What do you folks do? chuq ------------------------------ From: MACWEEKBOS Subject: RE: Where to put icons under MF (Re: Msg 23690) Date: 19-NOV 08:49 Business Mac I use PowerStation. I see that as the best option until I've got much more screen space than one little Apple color monitor's worth! Ric ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Where to put icons under MF (Re: Msg 23690) Date: 19-NOV 12:45 Business Mac I use PowerStation to open programs almost all the time. Basically the scheme that I have been using since getting a hard disk 2 years ago is out the window with MultiFinder. I have been accustomed to leaving folders all over my desktop so I can find documents easily and this just doesn't work well when there are windows open. Apple *should* have had Finder put all its icons in a layer, but they didn't. peter ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: Where to put icons under MF (Re: Msg 23690) Date: 20-NOV 21:50 Business Mac I've got favorite folders along the left edge of the screen, and favorite applications along the bottom. (Favorite DAs live in the menu bar, as always.) I used to have the applications at the top of the screen, but since Juggler, there are too many programs which want to put their windows up there. ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: outliner scrolling Date: 19-NOV 03:34 Bugs & Features According to the review in MacWEEK, Acta is slow at certain tasks. That's true, but I'm really stung by this accusation, because before I released the latest version, I tested scrolling speed against MORE and Outlook. I opened a ThinkTank document with each program (which no doubt took Acta longer than MORE, but I was only timing scrolling because someone had claimed that Outlook was speedy). I made sure the same topics were expanded and unshrunk so exactly the same stuff was being scrolled in each program (no fair having hidden document windows in MORE but visible multi-line topics in Acta). The scrolling took at least 30s in each (I wish I'd written this down!), so the document was small to medium. If my memory's correct, the fastest was Acta, followed by MORE and Outlook. In the process of doing the test, I was able to make Acta's scrolling even faster. I'm wondering if someone out there can perform an independent test. Either MacWEEK or I need to be straightened out. ------------------------------ From: NOFAL Subject: MacApp 2.0 Date: 18-NOV 21:22 Developers' Corner Does someone know something about the next MacApp version(2.0) that Apple is going to release this winter(I hope)? -Danny ------------------------------ From: NOFAL Subject: Smalltalk Date: 18-NOV 21:27 Developers' Corner I've been reading this forum for a long time know but I haven't read a single line about Smalltalk.is there someone out there interested in it?Right now, exciting things are happen in the Smalltalk community.Smalltalk 0.4 is a usable system on a Mac II at last.And two Smalltalk interpreters are going to debut Real Soon Now:The one from Digitalk(Smalltalk/V ) and another from Parc Place Systems(this is going to be the fastest and the most "standard").MacST by Digitalk will have a nearly standard Mac interface abandoning the sluggish ST interface and it should be a great development system. -Danny ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: Smalltalk (Re: Msg 2183) Date: 19-NOV 03:34 Developers' Corner I did minimal playing with Smalltalk 0.4 on a Mac II, and it's sure much nicer than running 0.3 on Plus! I don't have any real need for Smalltalk, however, once I learned it. ------------------------------ From: DSACHS Subject: MF Menu Warning Date: 19-NOV 20:27 Public Domain I have discovered that the public domain program, MultiFinder Menu, and INIT to create a menu for all active applications at the right end of the menu bar, is totally incompatible with (of all things) MacProject. ------------------------------ From: JWENDEL Subject: ROM and Monaco 9 Date: 20-NOV 00:53 Macintosh II Can someone supply a referrence to a patch for Mac II which will enable me to modify Monaco 9 ( by putting a slash through the zero, to distinguish it from capital O )? ResEdit or Fontastic+ let me fix this on the MacPlus, but not on the II, and I am baffled. Thanks! ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: RE: ROM and Monaco 9 (Re: Msg 23718) Date: 20-NOV 21:50 Macintosh II The Monaco 9 font is in ROM on the II. To override it, you'll need to use a Rovr/Rov# resource, or change its resource ID, and hack the FOND so it points to that resource. (This probably doesn't make things much clearer, but I haven't overridden a ROM font for several System releases.) ------------------------------ From: MACWEEKBOS Subject: RE: SE/20 and HD SC Setup (Usenet Mac D (Re: Msg 23707) Date: 20-NOV 10:58 Network Digests RE: SE/20 and HD SC Setup (Usenet Mac Digest V3 #93) In case no one else has already covered this, it appears that the reason newer versions of HD SC Setup format the disk to a smaller capacity is that the program now formats to a specific capacity rather than to the absolute maximum of good blocks. If you use *all* the good blocks available, and do an image backup to tape, for example, you can get into a bad situation if you reformat the disk, pick up an extra bad block, then try to restore from the image backup. It won't fit, and you can go buy a new disk... Ric ------------------------------ From: NATURAL Subject: WARNING! Date: 21-NOV 09:47 Telecommunicating There's a piece of software floating around on some BBSs called Packit 2.0 STAY AWAY! This program is a trojan horse so beware! ------------------------------ From: CHUQ Subject: typing in RSG! 4.0 Date: 22-NOV 00:54 Business Mac A while back you asked how doing real Word processing under Ready, Set, Go! 4.0 was. I tried it the other night under a couple of real world worst case situations, and was favorably impressed. Here's what I did. A three column page, three text blocks (full page) linked together. Hyphenation was on, using 10 pt palatino. I'd typed in about half a page of text, then copied it and duplicated it so text flowed across all three columns and overflowed off the page. From there, I continued typing in the stuff I was working on. The system kept up with me with nary a glitch. it is now smart enough to stop updating the screen when I'm on a roll, and limits its updating to the immediate area I'm working on unless there is dead time -- it only worries about the rest of the visible page when I'm not actively entering material, so you don't have those obnoxious delays RSG3 had. I tried it with both ragged right and fully justified. Fully justified takes a little getting used to -- it handles it well, but the screen display simply looks a little strange until you've worked with it a while. The only area that caused me problems was when the text I typed in crossed a column boundary and the program had to scroll the screen. Again, the program never mucked anything up or lost data or ran into delays, but I found the scrolling disorienting. Probably something you get used to, but it definitely isn't like writing in a WP where that stuff is generally invisible. I'm not a big fan of programs that get in the way of my writing. Summary: I found WP in RSG3 intolerable and avoided it. I don't mind RSG4 at all, and find I'm using it for short pieces since it is more convenient that ( um, than) popping back and forth between word and RSG, even under multifinder. Even under the nasty situations, like real-time hyphenation, justification and scrolling stuff across the entire page, it works fine. I'm impressed. It's faster AND smartter, and shows some careful optimization and design. (as a side comment, I'm actively putting together OtherRealms #19 as we speak. Background printing is NEAT. RSG is so much better that learning all the new toys is relatively painless and I'm getting a LOT more done for the time I'm putting in. It's a BIG improvement, not only in features and enhancements, but in speed and user interface. RSG4 is much better at staying out of my way and letting me do what I want to do, helping rather than getting in my way. I'm rapidly going from rather impressed to actively evangalizing -- something I don't often do. Consider this a strong vote for Ready Set Go! 4.0) chuq ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: typing in RSG! 4.0 (Re: Msg 23774) Date: 22-NOV 21:45 Business Mac Have you had any problem with lost keystrokes when background printing is going? I think I have (using MacWrite) though when you aren't looking for trouble its not easy to see what is wrong (it could have been confusion during blind typing -- the display caught up suddenly and when I looked back at it later, some characters were missing). peter ------------------------------ From: MACWEEKBOS Subject: Mac II power switch Date: 22-NOV 18:13 Bugs & Features I wonder if someone can explain it to me. Why the Mac II doesn't have a real power switch, only one that kind of tells the Mac you kind of want it to shut down if it's good and ready. There must be some advantage to this "smart" switch, right? What is it?? I'm getting kind of sick of fumbling around for the power cord and pulling it out of the computer to shut the f**king thing off after a crash. Ric Ford ------------------------------ From: CHUQ Subject: RSG 4.0 Tabs (argh) Date: 22-NOV 20:57 Business Mac Well, I've found RSG 4.0's achilles heel. Unfortunately. As they have every release to date, they'be completely rewritten the way tabs are handled. You'd think they would et it right eventually, but no. The tab formatting is non-intuitive, to the point I had to pull out the manual to figure out what was going on. That is the only time I've needed the manual to figure something out, by the way, with RSG4. They are set up as a second level dialog box. By the time you see it, most of teh screen is obscured unless you remember to move things around. Fortunately, dialog boxes in RSG can be moved if you want (unfortunately, RSG doesn't remmber where you last put them, so you have to move them every time). Also, tabs are not immediate. You bring up the tab dialog, make the changes, click OK, and then clikc 'apply' in the type spec dialog. When it doesn't work, you bring the tabs up again, make your changes, click... That's a lot of clicks. There's no way (as in Word) to bring up a ruler on the text block and install the tabs while working with the text involved. You have to work on a ruler that has no relationship with the text being tabbed. Needless, I jst spent 25 minutes trying to get a simple tab set working: a left justified text, followed by a centered tab, followed by a right justified tab (in other words, a Table of Contents). It won't take as long next time because I'm starting to understand their tabs, but the whole setup is quirky, non- intuitive, exceptionally complex, and highly modal. You can't point and click, and this is one area wher a point and click WYSIWYG format works exceptionally well, and it can't be hard to implement. sigh. You'd think they'd eventually get tabs right. All they need to do is see how Word implemented them. come to think of it, all you need to do is look at Word 3.0 and you can see what they left out of style sheets, for that matter. A couple of other notes: RSG4.0 could really use spacing before and after paragraphs (which, not so coincidentally, word has). It also needs a newline character that doesn't create a paragraph (which word has). Lacking these makes formating in-line headers much more difficult than neccessary. Finally, they're handling of styles is a bit ragged. If you select text formatted with a style sheet, bring up the text format box (clover-y) and make some changes, it isn't until you clike 'ok' that it tells you that this is formatted with a style sheet and you need to select remove styles first. It then throws out your changes. Why doesn't it tell me that when I OPEN the style sheet? Why can't I make overriding changes to a piece of style sheet text? (this is amazingly annoying when one of the style options is 'plain' -- you need to remember to set text options to 'none' by turning off all the text options if you're going to be setting styles to some of the text..). rough edges. sigh. But ONLY rough edges (except for Tabs, which are botched again... ). Still a neat program.... chuq ------------------------------ From: JEDIVASOVIC Subject: Hard disk building Date: 22-NOV 21:00 Hardware & Peripherals Has anybody undertaken the task of building an scsi hard disk using the two articles published in the feb 87 and june 87 issues of Mactutor? More specificaly, has anybody built an scsi hard disk upon the CD Wren III hard disk? What do you know of the CD Wren IV hard disk? What problems did you encounter? Was the project as easy as the two articles implies? What about the software? Does the scsi install utility from Apple work with the CD disks? Thank you very much of sharing your experience. I am not very skillful and that would be an expensive project for me. Thanks a lot -)> Jean-Denis <- ------------------------------ From: DDUNHAM Subject: re: OLD ROM's no longer supported (Re: Msg 23760) Date: 22-NOV 23:44 Network Digests > From: chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) > Subject: OLD ROM's no longer supported I know of at least two people happily using Mac 512s (with 64K ROMs). Neither is in a position to afford the upgrade. I can kind of sympathize with Apple, but it's annoying that a machine that's 3 years old is not only obsolete, but not supported. David Dunham "If it has syntax, it isn't user-friendly." Maitreya Design ------------------------------ From: DSACHS Subject: RE: Usenet Mac Digest V3 #95 (Re: Msg 23761) Date: 23-NOV 21:02 Network Digests >From: cds@duke.cs.duke.edu (Craig D. Singer) >Subject: Odd Formatting of Word 3.01 Footnotes >Date: 19 Nov 87 17:40:27 GMT >Organization: Duke University CS Dept.; Durham, NC Have you set Fractional Widths when printing with the LaserWriter? I have seen a few such problems that this alleviates. ------------------------------ From: MACWEEKBOS Subject: HyperDrive FX/40 vs. Radius Accelerator Date: 24-NOV 19:56 Bugs & Features I thought the Radius 1.8 Accelerator ROMs fixed the problems with General Computer FX drives, but I just proved that wrong (ouch!). Has anyone else dealt with this problem? Is there a newer version of FX Init that's required? Ric ------------------------------ From: GOODHIND Subject: Hypercard launch problems Date: 24-NOV 23:49 Creative Pursuits Attempts to launch applications using the hyper-talk "OPEN" command die if the hypercard application is in the same directory as the file you are trying to launch. Don't know if this will help anybody, but I chased it for an hour... ljg ------------------------------ From: PEABO Subject: RE: Hypercard launch problems (Re: Msg 23841) Date: 25-NOV 02:04 Creative Pursuits It doesn't seem like HyperTalk Open will find the file in any folder at all. It does work OK from the root directory. (Note: this problem only occurs under MultiFinder.) Tech Note 169 (available in the Developers' SIG Database topic Tech Notes as HYPERCARD 1.0.1 ANOMALIES) mentions this problem and others. It is fixed in the next release of HyperCard, which is not available to the public yet. peter ------------------------------ End of Delphi Mac Digest ************************ -------